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#13302352 Jun 16, 2017 at 09:30 AM
Grand Moff
213 Posts
The thread How class balance happens seemed to have created a conversation which seems quite long. Instead of covering the shoutbox lets continue the conversation here (for those interested, it begin's in Septima's shout with the link to the thread, 8 hours before I posted this)

Now for my own response:

I think some people misunderstand the "-5%" "+5%" thingie. This DOESN'T mean the classes will be nerfed or buffed by 5% compared to their current state. To specifically address those who mentioned MM snipers or lightning sorcs, they will NOT lose 5% of their dps (and anni mara's won't gain another 5%).

[All dps values and item ratings are for example only]

The true meaning of these "-+" is:
If the dps in the 3rd category [Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS)] should be approx 10k (on a dummy) with a 248 gear, the dps of specs in the first category should be 10.5k on a dummy with the same rating of gear. All specs in the same category should have approx the same dps on a dummy if 248 gear.

That means: if the eng sniper can deal more or less dmg than the vengance jugg or the carnage mara, some of them should be buffed/nerfed to much the others. Lets say they adjust them all to have 10k dps, that would mean 10k is the target dps. Now lets have a look on the ranged burst group: if target dps is 10k, then ranged burst should have 9.5k (on dummy, with the same rating of gear in which the eng sniper can deal 10k, lets keep calling it 248 for the example). That means the lightning sorc (unbugged), the MM sniper and the arsenal merc should all do 9.5k. That means those who are below that will be buffed, and those who are above it will be nerfed (even though they are all in "-5%" category), so if arsenal merc could do 12k and lightning sorc could do 5k, that would be irrelevant, since after balance both will do 9.5k.

Hope it makes things slightly clearer (and hope bioware don't ruin the a good idea in theory when they get to execution).
Respect the CHAIN of command, for they will lead you to victory and "Through victory my CHAINS are broken!!".
+2
#13302532 Jun 16, 2017 at 11:10 AM
Grand Moff
79 Posts
We'll see, but my guess is they won't touch burst sorc. Which means that without the bug you're fucked. If they would at least admit it's a feature they cannot fix...
And as the lion slaughters man I am the wolf and you're the lamb.
+0
#13302575 Jun 16, 2017 at 11:28 AM
Grand Moff
212 Posts
give insta ambush aswell for mm sniper and we call it even :P
+0
#13302852 Jun 16, 2017 at 02:08 PM · Edited 28 days ago
14 Posts
For reference, this is the theory crafted ranking; ofc this isn't 100% accurate, but this will give a good educated guess to which specs will change, and by how much
Dummy parses can't be used for comparison, since some classes have more rng/deviation than others

01 - 10746+-321 - +7.64% --- Operative-Lethality || Scoundrel-Ruffian
02 - 10460+-160 - +4.77% --- Sniper-Virulence || Gunslinger-Dirty Fighting
03 - 10432+-270 - +4.50% --- Sniper-Engineering || Gunslinger-Saboteur
04 - 10421+-415 - +4.39% --- Mercenary-Innovative Ordinance || Commando-Assault Specialist
05 - 10325+-284 - +3.43% --- Marauder-Annihilation || Sentinel-Watchman
06 - 10150+-526 - +1.67% --- Operative-Concealment || Scoundrel-Scrapper
07 - 10149+-582 - +1.66% --- Assassin-Deception || Shadow-Infiltration
08 - 10148+-300 - +1.66% --- Marauder-Carnage || Sentinel-Combat
09 - 10048+-517 - +0.65% --- Mercenary-Arsenal || Commando-Gunnery
10 - 10018+-371 - +0.35% --- Juggernaut-Vengeance || Guardian-Vigilance
11 - 9846+-488 - -1.38% --- Juggernaut-Rage || Guardian-Focus
12 - 9817+-351 - -1.66% --- Marauder-Fury || Sentinel-Concentration
13 - 9673+-504 - -3.11% --- Powertech-Advanced Prototype || Vanguard-Tactics
14 - 9632+-346 - -3.52% --- Assassin-Hatred || Shadow-Serenity
15 - 9548+-383 - -4.35% --- Powertech-Pyrotech || Vanguard-Plasmatech
16 - 9516+-267 - -4.68% --- Sorcerer-Madness || Sage-Balance
17 - 9440+-461 - -5.44% --- Sniper-Marksman || Gunslinger-Sharpshooter
18 - 9325+-303 - -6.59% --- Sorcerer-Lightning || Sage-Telekinetics

Marksman can expect a small buff, other snipers a significant nerf
lightning can expect a slightly larger buff
pyrotech a huge buff
and all mercs can expect a significant nerf (healer dps too probably)
there's some other nerfs/buffs you can expect, but I'm too lazy and cba to type it all out :p
+1
#13302865 Jun 16, 2017 at 02:19 PM
Grand Moff
79 Posts
I wouldn't base anything on theorycrafters. Theorycrafters say the best result for assassin tank is absorb >= shield. And in reality... ;)
And as the lion slaughters man I am the wolf and you're the lamb.
+0
#13303259 Jun 16, 2017 at 06:47 PM · Edited 2 months ago
Grand Moff
136 Posts
Rip some classes

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9333043#edit9333043

Damage Groupings for Damage Dealing Disciplines

Melee Sustained Damage Dealers (up to +5% of target DPS)

Annihilation Marauder / Watchman Sentinel
Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow
Lethality Operative / Ruffian Scoundrel
Pyrotech Powertech / Plasmatech Vanguard
Vengeance Juggernaut / Vigilance Guardian
Melee Quasi-Burst Damage Dealer (up to +2.5% of target DPS)

Fury Marauder / Concentration Sentinel

Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS)

Advanced Prototype Powertech / Tactics Vanguard
Carnage Marauder / Combat Sentinel
Concealment Operative / Scrapper Scoundrel
Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
Engineering Sniper / Saboteur Gunslinger
Innovative Ordnance Mercenary / Assault Specialist Commando
Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage
Rage Juggernaut / Focus Guardian

Ranged Quasi-Sustained Damage Dealer (down to -2.5% of target DPS)

Virulence Sniper / Dirty Fighting Gunslinger

Ranged Burst Damage Dealers (down to -5% of target DPS)

Arsenal Mercenary / Gunnery Command
Lightning Sorcerer / Telekinetics Sage
Marksmanship Sniper / Sharpshooter Gunslinger



they are gonna nerf lightening sorcs even further XD

-1
#13303307 Jun 16, 2017 at 07:20 PM
Dark Council
442 Posts
#13302352 Rafiknoll wrote:

The thread How class balance happens seemed to have created a conversation which seems quite long. Instead of covering the shoutbox lets continue the conversation here (for those interested, it begin's in Septima's shout with the link to the thread, 8 hours before I posted this)

Now for my own response:

I think some people misunderstand the "-5%" "+5%" thingie. This DOESN'T mean the classes will be nerfed or buffed by 5% compared to their current state. To specifically address those who mentioned MM snipers or lightning sorcs, they will NOT lose 5% of their dps (and anni mara's won't gain another 5%).

[All dps values and item ratings are for example only]

The true meaning of these "-+" is:
If the dps in the 3rd category [Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS)] should be approx 10k (on a dummy) with a 248 gear, the dps of specs in the first category should be 10.5k on a dummy with the same rating of gear. All specs in the same category should have approx the same dps on a dummy if 248 gear.

That means: if the eng sniper can deal more or less dmg than the vengance jugg or the carnage mara, some of them should be buffed/nerfed to much the others. Lets say they adjust them all to have 10k dps, that would mean 10k is the target dps. Now lets have a look on the ranged burst group: if target dps is 10k, then ranged burst should have 9.5k (on dummy, with the same rating of gear in which the eng sniper can deal 10k, lets keep calling it 248 for the example). That means the lightning sorc (unbugged), the MM sniper and the arsenal merc should all do 9.5k. That means those who are below that will be buffed, and those who are above it will be nerfed (even though they are all in "-5%" category), so if arsenal merc could do 12k and lightning sorc could do 5k, that would be irrelevant, since after balance both will do 9.5k.

Hope it makes things slightly clearer (and hope bioware don't ruin the a good idea in theory when they get to execution).






Great idea rafi

"u see what i did there" :p ?
+2
#13304771 Jun 17, 2017 at 06:36 PM
14 Posts
#13303259 No'getta wrote:

Rip some classes

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9333043#edit9333043

they are gonna nerf lightening sorcs even further XD


read it again


and yeah, theory crafters aren't always accurate, but it's a good indication (since leaderboards are even worse

for tanks it's a totally different story, since as a nim tank you want spike mitigation, and don't care as much about sustained mitigation (theory crafting only looks at sustained mitigation)
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#13304888 Jun 17, 2017 at 08:02 PM
Grand Moff
136 Posts
yeah I have mis read the whole thing.

I am not really a theory craft guy just have to see how it will play out then we are gonna see if it is good or bad.
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#13305000 Jun 17, 2017 at 09:28 PM
Grand Moff
79 Posts
#13304771 numedain wrote:

#13303259 No'getta wrote:

Rip some classes

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9333043#edit9333043

they are gonna nerf lightening sorcs even further XD


read it again


and yeah, theory crafters aren't always accurate, but it's a good indication (since leaderboards are even worse

for tanks it's a totally different story, since as a nim tank you want spike mitigation, and don't care as much about sustained mitigation (theory crafting only looks at sustained mitigation)

I am just saying that we shouldn't trust that table 100 %. They should have thousands of logs available(as that's their servers ^^) so they may be balancing the damage based on actual fights, representation of classes in such fights etc.
And as the lion slaughters man I am the wolf and you're the lamb.
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#13314399 Jun 23, 2017 at 08:18 AM
Grand Moff
79 Posts
(9 minutes ago)
Rafiknoll: I dont deny that this is a terrible nerf, but we can't know yet how is this healer compared to other healers. If they nerf all the rest even worse, the sorc healer will remain as viable as others...


Well, no. If these numbers go through the sorc will become really hard to play in some fights.

If we're talking about the usual PUG, then e.g. Rishi & Blood Hunt will be very hard to heal. Don't think the change will affect any HM 8m Operation unless you take there 2 sorcs. Not sure about NIM, I actually think that some fights will be real nightmare.

And if they nerf even the rest of healer, the question is who will heal some fights. I won't deny that healing is overtuned, but these numbers doesn't make sense. The biggest problem of sorc is PvP and the amount of instant burst heals. basically wandering mend. All they had to do is to longer the CD on that heal so it's not that often and sorcs cannot spam it and buff it a little. THen sorcs would have a burst they would have to use when it's actually needed and the rest could be interrupted.

Right now sorc lost 25 % on the biggest burst heal. The force management is way harder, the cost of salvation is higher(this is by far the biggest force consuming ability) and they nerfed even the rest of the heals. I'm afraid that we will see "LFM 2h xyz HM - no sorcs" in the future.
And as the lion slaughters man I am the wolf and you're the lamb.
+0
#13314476 Jun 23, 2017 at 09:29 AM
Grand Moff
213 Posts
The problem is healing is OP compared to PVP damage output, but is just right for PVE damage output. The possible solutions are:

Buff all DPS to match PVP healing and increase the HP of all PVE bosses, so DPS still do approximate same damage (that option is complicated, don't forget tanks should be able to match the buffed DPS with their defensives, which will also mean the PVE bosses need to deal more damage to match the increased defensives, resulting in DPS being even squishier to boss attacks (ex. Revan's cleave 1-shots), and all PVP deaths will be much faster (ex. Mara vs Mara will end in 15 secs).

Nerf all healers to match PVP damage. That would only mean that ops bosses will have to deal less damage (long overdue since they were tested for bugged tanks of 5.0, and that would also mean a random missed AoE will not deal 90% damage to a DPS). This way Bioware solves the PVP balance problem while keeping PVE possible and all they had to do is to nerf 3 specs (instead of buffing all DPS) and nerf some boss damage (changing no mechanic, and not changing difficulty, because healers are nerfed). I suspect that is their intent here. If we see other healers getting a major buff it will prove you are right and they just wanna kill that spec 😅.
Respect the CHAIN of command, for they will lead you to victory and "Through victory my CHAINS are broken!!".
+0
#13314526 Jun 23, 2017 at 10:20 AM · Edited 2 months ago
Grand Moff
79 Posts
As I already mentioned - both Juggs and PTs did have stance problems, but this wasn't increasing their defensive capabilities. I played all the tanks when 5.0 :) The content wasn't made around assassins - otherwise the reflect wouldn't be overlooked.

The WZ problem isn't about heals in general, but about lack of team matching and adding guard to every DPS and about lack of stat balance.

Check the healers stat and outputs in 4.0 and compare it to 5.0. If you want you can go 1.6k crit/ala and what, 4.4k power? Or 3.9k power, 2.2k crit and 1.5k ala(I'm at work so the numbers are taken out of my bad memory). With these numbers the heals have guaranteed crits(with these numbers check the innervate with recklessness).

Back to WZ. So now we have a huge heal output because they have too many free stat points.

So, how to kill a healer:
- interrupt core abilities - remember, both FOTM DPS specs have LONG interrupt and they are usually not on TS to cooperate, so this is way harder than with mara/pt(wait what?)
- predict defensives(e.g. sorc has blinding bubble - this means that you want to remove sorc bubble while under some dots or while you are far far away)
- use the burst at the right moment(+know how to do the actual burst)

What many players can see - omg omg omg, the healer is still alive and I cannot kill it, NURF HARD!@$!%$!%! What they don't see - omg omg omg, I'm healing myself but the team is slowly dying. You don't have to kill the healer, just make the healer unable to heal the rest.

Problem is that both of these concepts are highly broken when looking at sorcs. e.g. when you are sitting on a merc healer and interrupting properly, what does the merc has? Kolto shell, kolto shot, every 40s 2 instant heals, every energy shield immunity to interrupts(if taken) and every 15s instant big heal and AoE heal in which you have to stay for the heals :) While 3 out of 4 sorc core abilities are instant - small heal(dark heal? not sure now, benevolence), with 3 stacks aoe heal(after which the small heal is instant) and wandering mend. Sure, you can kick the innervate, but with enough crits you will get to the 3 stacks fast anyway. And you can carry the AoE heal around(let's ignore that the heal is not that big anyway)

So, to summarize this, what we have in 5.0
- guards everywhere
- boosted healing with low diminishing returns
- sorc dps moved to sorc healers
- 4h 2t vs 1h 0t warzones
- new defensive abilities on FOTM classes(snipers/mercs)

This all creates the illusion everyone is immortal. Add to that insane defensive on sorcs and powerful instant heals every "few" seconds.

I can see why people are pissed at sorcs, but this nerf doesn't address any of the issues why sorcs are good in PvP. This address only numbers, this is a lazy balancing.

It won't affect myself, I outhealed many healers back in the release, when sorc was considered the worse healer for both PvP and PvE. I will outheal them now. But if other healers are not nerfed enough we will end with the release state - sorc being the worst heal for all the content.

And that's what wrong. We have some T4 sorcs out there. They will be utterly pissed. Because if a spec is shit in PvP it usually shines in PvE and vice versa(e.g. 4.0 dot PT).


You wanna solve the PvP problem? nerf sorc this way:
- nerf energy management so that you HAVE to use and plan when to use the restoration(or whatever it is called). This nerfs your AoE heal(beacuse it takes the stacks when used!!!). e.g. lower force regen, boost force regen from the stacks while nerfing the force returned when using the stacks(this means you cannot use this 4 times in a row)
- heavily nerf the CD of wandering mend so it's less often. Or remove the smartness of the ability.

+ on DPS specs nerf the guard, that it only reduce the threat(yay, valid for PvP) and gives the 5 % damage reduction. This way only the tanks are valid to guard with the 50 % dmg split.

Bam, sorc solved as they need to cast abilities. This means they can be interrupted more often. This means they will heal less against competent team. In addition only tanks can guard healers.


Cannot wait for other healer changes, but I think that if sorc will end up as the best, then we have a real issues in PvE.
And as the lion slaughters man I am the wolf and you're the lamb.
+1
#13314563 Jun 23, 2017 at 10:50 AM
Grand Moff
213 Posts
I thought I said it here but apperantly I said it only in the screenshot:

Stance was bugged for all tanks, sin benefited more but only a bit. The PT armor was somewhere near 70% at that time, if I remember correctly, so jugg couldn't have been that far behind either, and all tanks had the 121% accuracy.

That's for the "other tanks weren't more defensive in 5.0"

As for the real problem in PVP, I agree the main problem is the lack of matching and all the rest of the problems compared to that I minor (if mercs are OP but are divided equally between groups then the groups are matched and have equal chance to win).

I disagree that the DPS guard is a problem. When a DPS guards he risks dying because he takes all damage targeted at him + 50% damage from his guarded guy, which means 150% damage when standing in AoE or simply when in a real scrap with many people on both sides, and unlike tanks, he takes these 150% without the increased defenses.

#13314526 Dea Tacita wrote:

What many players can see - omg omg omg, the healer is still alive and I cannot kill it, NURF HARD!@$!%$!%! What they don't see - omg omg omg, I'm healing myself but the team is slowly dying. You don't have to kill the healer, just make the healer unable to heal the rest.



While you are right when you say it isn't impossible or even too hard to kill a group with a healer, you seem to be thinking in arena terms. But imagine a voidstar on an Alderaan in which a healer and a group of 3 more people are guarding a door/turret. It will take all 8 of your group quite some time until you kill all DPS and then the healer has to survive until they spawn (max time is 15 secs usually, unless you killed all in the same time), and mostly he can easily do that, and you got 4 people holding a door/turret vs 8 people, just because they have 1 good healer... A healer who is focused 100% by more than 1 player must be able to be killed relatively fast (without some long dcd such as force barrier), or guarding potential is simply far too high, and most warzones have something to do with guarding an objective. Not to mention healer-ball-carrier. I don't give a damn about killing his group, I must kill HIM, and if 4 people have a hard time doing that (since 7 enemies try to kill them, stun them, push them, and give the healers some slack to heal), a healer who picked the ball has basically guaranteed a goal, without having to worry about his group's life.

Your alternatives ideas for nerfs are nice. But can't say for certain if they are better/worse for PVE, healers who cast too much will be bad in handling spikes, which are the main reason for tank deaths in hard bosses. Not to mention, that unless you let them move during all casts you actually ensure at least ~30% of their casts will be broken uselessly to avoid some AoE or position (Sword Squadron, Underlurker, Revan, Bulo, Torque, M&B, and on Tyth's inversion from the point in which he starts casting to the point in which they are thrown they will have no time to cast anything but innervate, resurgence and wandering mend if the increased CD is off, and these are only a few examples)
Respect the CHAIN of command, for they will lead you to victory and "Through victory my CHAINS are broken!!".
+0
#13314588 Jun 23, 2017 at 11:10 AM
Grand Moff
79 Posts
You missed the 4h 2t vs 1h 0t point of what's wrong with WZs :)

Eh, healed ToS 4.0 HM 4/5 without healing trance on the run and it was doable. The sorcs just need to press the buttons at the right time and not do braindead rotation. (but yes, healing trance on the run makes it easier, no doubt about that)

If you have hard times killing a healer in 4 players, you're pressing wrong buttons as a group(again, the problem is coordination of burst and interrupts). I still remember running 3 burst commandos + sage heal as a premade back in 4.0. There wasn't a healer that wouldn't do *puff*. Damn it, 2 weeks ago I was playing against 3 marauders + healer premade. I'm still having nightmares about it :D

2 good DPS players kill any healer they want to kill. 3 good dps players if a good tank is included and you have someone with a brain and push/pull on your side :)

1 DPS should not be able to kill a healer of the same quality. But the healer shouldn't be able to heal the team while fighting the DPS.
And as the lion slaughters man I am the wolf and you're the lamb.
+0
#13314645 Jun 23, 2017 at 11:54 AM
Grand Moff
213 Posts
#13314588 Dea Tacita wrote:

You missed the 4h 2t vs 1h 0t point of what's wrong with WZs :)



No, you missed the fact I didn't miss it :P
Proof:

#13314563 Rafiknoll wrote:


As for the real problem in PVP, I agree the main problem is the lack of matching and all the rest of the problems compared to that I minor (if mercs are OP but are divided equally between groups then the groups are matched and have equal chance to win).



[Mercs were just and example, replace "mercs" by "healers"/"tanks"/ whatever you consider OP and reread that. Sorry for the quotes Yoyo :P]

4 players usually don't have a hard time to kill a healer, but again, you are ignoring the time limit which most objective warzones present. You must kill the healer before he can throw the ball, or before the dead guys spawn back and help defend the objective he was guarding, and most healers can survive long enough for that. Some good healers can't always be killed by 2 good players (unless in an arena where there is nothing else at all to take your attention away from killing). Play enough voidstars and Novare's and you will see a good healer is a great turret guard, and unless you send more than 2 stealthers to surprise him, his reinforcements will be there long before you kill him.

You are right that healers are not OP in RWZ, this is why I emphasize PVP isn't only RWZ, and some people refer mainly to objective PVP when saying healers are OP.
Respect the CHAIN of command, for they will lead you to victory and "Through victory my CHAINS are broken!!".
+0
#13314727 Jun 23, 2017 at 01:03 PM · Edited 2 months ago
36 Posts
I had a chat with some healers from my raidgroup and they seem to agree with the developers decision to nerf sorc healers. Not shure about the numbers but a 10% nerf in healing seems about right. When you co-heal with a sorc you can basicly let the sorc do all the healing and you relax and do offdps. Only in some moments the other healer is required to go full heal mode. The other way around it's quite rare to see.

It's time for people to learn how to properly heal in coordination with the other healer in the group (synergistic effects) and for damage dealers to use their defensive cooldowns in the right way and at the right time. I see way too many UIs for damage dealers that have extreme small operation frames. How are they watching everyones health and look at their healers energy?
+3
#13314785 Jun 23, 2017 at 01:41 PM · Edited 2 months ago
37 Posts
Two friends of mine who have been playing sage/sorc for quite a while, both have nightmare world firsts and are published authors (as in the wrote guids for dulfy) both commented that the nerfs makes perfect sense. The healing output needed to be reduced significantly and this will make the class a bit harder to play in nightmare while the output for hardmode and story will be perfectly sufficient.

On a personal note I am a bit unhappy with the changes to wandering mend, it would have made more sense to introduce a mechanic which prevented the heal to jump to the same person twice.
+0
#13314926 Jun 23, 2017 at 03:00 PM
Dark Council
442 Posts
#13314526 Dea Tacita wrote:

As I already mentioned - both Juggs and PTs did have stance problems, but this wasn't increasing their defensive capabilities. I played all the tanks when 5.0 :) The content wasn't made around assassins - otherwise the reflect wouldn't be overlooked.

The WZ problem isn't about heals in general, but about lack of team matching and adding guard to every DPS and about lack of stat balance.

Check the healers stat and outputs in 4.0 and compare it to 5.0. If you want you can go 1.6k crit/ala and what, 4.4k power? Or 3.9k power, 2.2k crit and 1.5k ala(I'm at work so the numbers are taken out of my bad memory). With these numbers the heals have guaranteed crits(with these numbers check the innervate with recklessness).

Back to WZ. So now we have a huge heal output because they have too many free stat points.

So, how to kill a healer:
- interrupt core abilities - remember, both FOTM DPS specs have LONG interrupt and they are usually not on TS to cooperate, so this is way harder than with mara/pt(wait what?)
- predict defensives(e.g. sorc has blinding bubble - this means that you want to remove sorc bubble while under some dots or while you are far far away)
- use the burst at the right moment(+know how to do the actual burst)

What many players can see - omg omg omg, the healer is still alive and I cannot kill it, NURF HARD!@$!%$!%! What they don't see - omg omg omg, I'm healing myself but the team is slowly dying. You don't have to kill the healer, just make the healer unable to heal the rest.

Problem is that both of these concepts are highly broken when looking at sorcs. e.g. when you are sitting on a merc healer and interrupting properly, what does the merc has? Kolto shell, kolto shot, every 40s 2 instant heals, every energy shield immunity to interrupts(if taken) and every 15s instant big heal and AoE heal in which you have to stay for the heals :) While 3 out of 4 sorc core abilities are instant - small heal(dark heal? not sure now, benevolence), with 3 stacks aoe heal(after which the small heal is instant) and wandering mend. Sure, you can kick the innervate, but with enough crits you will get to the 3 stacks fast anyway. And you can carry the AoE heal around(let's ignore that the heal is not that big anyway)

So, to summarize this, what we have in 5.0
- guards everywhere
- boosted healing with low diminishing returns
- sorc dps moved to sorc healers
- 4h 2t vs 1h 0t warzones
- new defensive abilities on FOTM classes(snipers/mercs)

This all creates the illusion everyone is immortal. Add to that insane defensive on sorcs and powerful instant heals every "few" seconds.

I can see why people are pissed at sorcs, but this nerf doesn't address any of the issues why sorcs are good in PvP. This address only numbers, this is a lazy balancing.

It won't affect myself, I outhealed many healers back in the release, when sorc was considered the worse healer for both PvP and PvE. I will outheal them now. But if other healers are not nerfed enough we will end with the release state - sorc being the worst heal for all the content.

And that's what wrong. We have some T4 sorcs out there. They will be utterly pissed. Because if a spec is shit in PvP it usually shines in PvE and vice versa(e.g. 4.0 dot PT).


You wanna solve the PvP problem? nerf sorc this way:
- nerf energy management so that you HAVE to use and plan when to use the restoration(or whatever it is called). This nerfs your AoE heal(beacuse it takes the stacks when used!!!). e.g. lower force regen, boost force regen from the stacks while nerfing the force returned when using the stacks(this means you cannot use this 4 times in a row)
- heavily nerf the CD of wandering mend so it's less often. Or remove the smartness of the ability.

+ on DPS specs nerf the guard, that it only reduce the threat(yay, valid for PvP) and gives the 5 % damage reduction. This way only the tanks are valid to guard with the 50 % dmg split.

Bam, sorc solved as they need to cast abilities. This means they can be interrupted more often. This means they will heal less against competent team. In addition only tanks can guard healers.


Cannot wait for other healer changes, but I think that if sorc will end up as the best, then we have a real issues in PvE.




I just quoted Dea so this will not be offensive in any way.

wanted to say that i love how this thread has a big enough name to occupy entire left side column. Totaly saved the Shout box with it. thumbs up Rafi !
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#13314965 Jun 23, 2017 at 03:21 PM
Grand Moff
213 Posts
Nice try Yoyo, but left side column will show 5 things regardless of their size :P
Respect the CHAIN of command, for they will lead you to victory and "Through victory my CHAINS are broken!!".
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